ATTN

Does Jack's beastly Crimson Lance go up against this:



OR this:



Even though Jack's Lance has a ridiculous RoF, it technically isn't a Liquid. This is the same issue we had with the Penetrators, Desert vs. Liquid. In that case, we went with "RoF" and "Damage" categories, but these Hyperions may be viewed a little differently, due to the fact that they don't have a full-auto mechanism.



And on another note, this change was made in the OP with no discussion, just switched:

Now in OP:

Originally in OP:

Personally, I think a barrel4 vs barrel5 discussion is warranted and likely worthwhile.

The reason that the red one is staying is that jess is doing 2 with crimson material and 2 with red material.

Then everyone voice your opinions on those two ogres which should go up in the OP?

On the Ogres, the element does not matter - it should simply be a representation of a barrel4 version and a barrel5 version.

I am working on getting the unique boss weapons filled in, but the Lady Finger, Sentinel and Nailer are driving me nuts.

Jess I updated everrything but

Didn't know where to put chev's double protector
added rockets
and updated all others on last page

My point of view on the Lances: Lances are about accuracy, not fire rate. 2 categories are warrented here; crimson = damage, liquid = fire rate. Jacks just has the mix of those parts again., just like the penetrator for Renegade. I think it deserves the spot for the fire rate for now

My point of view on the ogres: the same as for the revolutions, accuracy isn't relevant on support machine guns, only on cobra's etc. I'll take the extra damage coupled with the bigger clip any day

Terminator has a 3.6 fire rate lance with 893 dmg, we'll see if he can provide a good picture of that later.

@ alick: Some poeple prefer the barrel 5 versions, like me. Accuracy is of course important on MGs, just like SMGs.

I'm fine with the way the Penetrator debate was solved. I already voiced my approval of that. The Penetrator is a unique weapon and was dealt with as such.

As far as the Hyperions are concerned, I was simply asking which one Jack's Lance would go up against, as this is a different situation that that relating to the Penetrators.

And regarding the Ogres (and IMO any weapon 'upgrade' that is not a single attribute upgrade, ie, involving a combination of dam/ acc/ RoF changes) I think that discussion is required.

And Jess' comment (that was edited out) regarding no more than 2 submissions/ upgrades per day, sorry bro, just trying to fill empty slots. Will keep it in check from now on.

Please don't take any comments as argumentative, bitching, moaning, whining, or inflammatory. i am simply trying to be critical in the analysis and ensure that the 'Best' are represented in the OP. That's what we all want, right?

He edited that out? Hmm... I thought taco did a great job at adding all my filler rockets

VOTE

MY HELLFIRE SELF FOUND



VS

THE OP THAT WAS SUBMITTED BY JACK

Quote :

And Jess' comment (that was edited out) regarding no more than 2
submissions/ upgrades per day, sorry bro, just trying to fill empty
slots. Will keep it in check from now on.

Quote :

He edited that out? Hmm... I thought taco did a great job at adding all my filler rockets

Yes i can edit my posts as i please. I just read it and reailzed that everyone was sorta following that rule just seems like alot cause Chev and Jack posted 2 Upgrades and the rest were fillers. From now on please post them in different reply's 1 for upgrades and 1 for fillers ALSO please no more than 2 Upgrades and 2 Fillers from now on. Thanks

Quote :

My
point of view on the Lances: Lances are about accuracy, not fire rate.
2 categories are warrented here; crimson = damage, liquid = fire rate.
Jacks just has the mix of those parts again., just like the penetrator
for Renegade. I think it deserves the spot for the fire rate for now

My
point of view on the ogres: the same as for the revolutions, accuracy
isn't relevant on support machine guns, only on cobra's etc. I'll take
the extra damage coupled with the bigger clip any day

I couldnt have said it better. I think in the case of Cobras and Pearl Havocs i preffer acc barrel but in others i prefer damage....IMO Yall decide.

Quote :

Please don't take any comments as argumentative, bitching, moaning,
whining, or inflammatory. i am simply trying to be critical in the
analysis and ensure that the 'Best' are represented in the OP. That's
what we all want, right?

Its ok that your an asshole. JK JK JK

@ chevy: would never take it like that since argument/opinion is encouraged ... but the vote was called and ... hmm but I kinda voted for mine ...

@ taco 1: missed the update for my revolution unless I missed something


@ taco 2: the names on the OP for the surkovs are switched between the 2

That was submitted by Chev. but that is not relevant. Yours should go up Jess. My vote.

EDIT: Even with the VHEEC versus HEEC the dmg. from the Tech Pool is high enough along with the increased dmg. to think Jess's should go up.

On subject of the Lances:

I alick I wrote:

My point of view on the Lances: Lances are about accuracy, not fire rate. 2 categories are warrented here; crimson = damage, liquid = fire rate. Jacks just has the mix of those parts again., just like the penetrator for Renegade. I think it deserves the spot for the fire rate for now

I agree.

I alick I wrote:

My point of view on the ogres: the same as for the revolutions, accuracy isn't relevant on support machine guns, only on cobra's etc. I'll take the extra damage coupled with the bigger clip any day

I agree with the decision made with the Revolutions where the difference was:
Accuracy decrease -> 8.8
Damage increase -> 33

But, in the case of the Ogres:
Accuracy decrease -> 6.8
Damage increase: -> 9

Thats damn near a 1-for-1 trade-off in acc for damage, not really too sure how I feel about that. Is clip size going to play a factor? If so, then are scopes and stocks also going to be mitigating factors in future decisions?

EDIT: If there was a vote on the Ogres, then I missed it and am shit outta luck.

Jess' Hellfire is WIN.

Jess Un Ojo wrote:

VOTE

MY HELLFIRE SELF FOUND



VS

THE OP THAT WAS SUBMITTED BY JACK

My vote; Jess's, cuz its VHEEC and hellfires are about fire splash damage / fire damage over time; VHEEC is better and damage gain over accuracy loss is also better.

The OP is just High Elemental Effect. Mine is VHEEC

Jess Un Ojo wrote:

The OP is just High Elemental Effect. Mine is VHEEC

Oops sorry typo corrected, I meant yours Jess.

Well, the max barrel 4 will hit 370, while a max barrel 5 would hit 342, but I would still use the barrel 5 version -accuracy on MGs IS preferencial. I still say it would be easier just to create a barrel4 and barrel 5 category for the Ogres/Revolutions.

And I thought VHEEC didn't even matter on Hellfires because they have an unlimited tech pool? It won't proc higher than a x4, and Hellfires are ALWAYS x4. Also, they proc every shot so it's kinda redundant.

Cass277 wrote:

@ alick: Some poeple prefer the barrel 5 versions, like me. Accuracy is of course important on MGs, just like SMGs.

Its not really about preference; machine guns and smgs are not suppossed to be used as pinpoint accuracy guns ... we all do however because the game allows it. To me they are about bigger clips = more bullets to "spray"

Cass277 wrote:

Well, the max barrel 4 will hit 370, while a max barrel 5 would hit 342, but I would still use the barrel 5 version -accuracy on MGs IS preferencial. I still say it would be easier just to create a barrel4 and barrel 5 category for the Ogres/Revolutions.

And I thought VHEEC didn't even matter on Hellfires because they have an unlimited tech pool? It won't proc higher than a x4, and Hellfires are ALWAYS x4. Also, they proc every shot so it's kinda redundant.

The procs are "bigger" and will splash more on VHEEC's ... I believe.

Doesn't matter, cause I would take a 95 acc Hyperion Stinger over a Torgue one for example.. you get to land all your bullets in one place and do more damage than you would if they were to miss.

Regardless of the VHEEC vs HEEC, Jess' is win. Fully support a acc decrease 3 for damage increase 32.

Ok so what guns should we have the barrel 4 barrel 5 versions?

On MGs, if we made a category for both this whole thing would be over

Like what happened with the Penetrators.